I know it , I hear it , I experience it but I still need help coming back to it, 'To Reality as it is ! ' . And repetition helps clear away any imaginary obstacles. Thank you 🙏
As I was reading, I thought, “I must simply keep reading this continually, all day every day, and then I’d not lose this awareness.” Hahaha! The individualistic part of consciousness keeps wanting to control everything, even the not-controlling-everything. I deeply appreciate all your writing and the way you play with recurring patterns of language. Also, very recently a dear friend of mine died just a few weeks after diagnosis, and he told me how grateful he was for the non-dual perspective he’d been taught. You were one of the teachers who enabled him to experience much relief and freedom at the end of his life. Thank you so much.
Non duality captured in a nutshell…Lately I’ve been wondering if it’s all just another comforting narrative … just a story that gives us the illusion of certainty.
Once we put it into words, it's a story. But if it's just a story or an idea or a belief, it will always remain doubtful, with thoughts popping up such as, "Maybe this is just a story and I'm fooling myself," and at the center of those thoughts, driving them, there is the root thought, the "me" thought, and the concern with not fooling myself and not being a fool and ultimately surviving as me. That's why I always suggest direct exploration of present experiencing, testing it out, looking and listening, seeing directly. Then it sinks in at a whole different level. And yes, it is, in my experience, the most comforting discovery (and story). 🙏
After 10 years of non duality..including direct exploration via intensives designed to “end” the spiritual path with various teachers, each with their own twist on the core narrative you’ve captured clearly, it’s all starting to feel like a slightly more enlightened herd..I just sense there’s further to go.
That's the most challenging apparent "problem" right there, the belief that there is further to go, which of course involves "me" and future time and the belief that "this isn't quite it."
Relatively speaking, of course, this notion seems to make sense, since we can learn, practice, refine and develop all kinds of skills, and (in the story, told by memory, abstraction, reification and over-simplification) "I" can seemingly improve in all kinds of ways over apparent time (e.g., once "I" was a drunk and now I'm sober). And in many ways, there is no end to exploration, discovery and new revelations.
But it all happens NOW. We never actually leave here-now, this one bottomless moment. This really is IT. And right now, in this instant, before thought kicks in, there is no me, no future, no past, not even any now. Thought, memory and imagination create the central character, the narrative, and the apparently progressive journey from drunkenness to sobriety, or from grade school to graduate school, or from infancy to old age, or from delusion to enlightenment.
"10 years of non duality" is a story. A story about "Stephen" who has made some progress maybe, but still has "further to go." It's a story. And the story is nothing other than a momentary wave of experiencing. It's not really a problem at all.
And yet, here you are....reading, commenting, obviously still engaged. What's being pointed to isn't the narrative or the story. It's the aliveness right here and now. And it's also about seeing through the thoughts-stories-beliefs that seem to hide this from us. That seeing can only happen NOW, and it always happens instantaneously, but it rarely happens once-and-for-all.
It often takes many decades of catching the mechanism of suffering again and again as it happens. Each seeing is fresh and new. It's always right now. There is only right now. You can't get any closer to this than you always already are. But paradoxically, it can seemingly take decades, far more than a mere 10 years, to see and see through and wear out the "yes, but's" of the thinking mind, and for this to sink in deeply. And in some cases, that never happens. But even then, there was never a separate "someone" who was lost and never found.
Wayne Liquorman once said that seeking is like having sex with a 900 pound gorilla...you're not done until the gorilla is done. So, onward in your search for the clarity that seems to be missing, perhaps looking everywhere but right here. And by right here, I don't mean on my Substack. I mean in this instant of your own direct present experiencing. All the best....
Echo previous comments-thank you. Would it be within non dualality to sau we have a “self” -a preference, a thought, a belief, a constellation, that is different moment to moment, always in process, responsive and responding sometimes with hints of continuity, sonetimes with radical breaks and to tune into and endure and delight in the isness of each momentary variation gives breath around the edges? Long time ago I studied Process Theology, whwn it was a pretty radical idea in my culture, and was drawn to the droplet of experiencing where we have the tiniest wooing.
Some people have said selfing rather than self (verb rather than noun), and if we're going to talk about a self, that seems like a more accurate way from my perspective. And that seems to be what I hear you suggesting, that there is an ever-changing but somewhat consistent patterning made up of many elements, which are themselves better described as verbs than nouns. The apparent continuity depends on memory of course, which is part of the whole. However, I'm not sure I understand the final line in your comment, that you were "drawn to the droplet of experiencing where we have the tiniest wooing." ???
Yes! Truth in the Hebrew is more like truthing, a process not a destination. When I read that piece of translation, I thought of Jesus as pointing towards the waying, the truthing and the living. Not static. Process thought describes the holy as that which woos us, in each tiny droplet of experiecing, in the flow of time, with that hint which opens possibilty, hope, joy, abundant life.
Hi Joan I've printed out this post and already read it several times... Have you ever considered creating a little pocket with posts of wisdom like this.
( A nice little hardback would be wonderful although not essential) . I tend to print out quite a few of you posts and love to refer to them as little reminders. I've read all your books over the years and can so relate to your journey with all its down to earth honesty.
I would definitely buy a few copied of you decided to do such a pocket book of such honest wisdom.
A number of folks have suggested turning some of my Substack articles into a book, and I do have a file of material, some new, and some from Substack, website and old Facebook writings (back when I was on FB), and it could end up being another book. My biggest problem is that I have too much material, since brevity is not my strong point, and it needs editing, pruning, arranging and lots and lots of cutting, all of which is the part I procrastinate on since it is the most difficult for me...so, we'll see if it ever coalesces into another book, but it might. I appreciate the nudge and encouragement to do it.
Good advice, and in a way, it's where all the words are pointing, but books can also be very helpful and important in clarifying all of this. If I felt otherwise, I wouldn't be writing (or reading). In my experience, it's not either/or.
Hola ¡ jo, qua em dic a mi mateix jo és una ressonància buida de contingut però plena de novetat com una incògnita al mateix temps que propera molt a prop meu, un jo genuí i, pensant-ho una mica es així ja que cada jo es únic irrepetible genuí la diversitat d'una sola Cosa. El jo primer el que només sap que es jo, d'un mateix, es tímid, reservat el proper el de hom mateix, en contrast amb el jo que sap que té que saber hi està casi obligat, el jo social es el que i qui defèn aquesta intimitat que es Ell .
Tot es relació de tot amb tot al instan cada cosa i persona del interior cos al exterior món i al univers d'anada i també a de tornada
Tenir que guanyar-se la vida això ens ho fan creure des del principi i ens ho creiem i, passa el que passa generalment per exemple ara la competició exacerbada maliciosa no natural, la por l'egoisme els odis creats per la gent que vol poder més i més i les guerres ..
Podries escriure sobre l'odi com s'estén què ho fa...
As I see it, hate comes from feeling separate and small and threatened. It is one of the many side effects of believing we are separate and also that we all have personal free will, so if someone does something I don't like, I think they could have done otherwise.
Hola ¡ sí es cert, l'amor es unió l'odi el contrari, així doncs tenim un antídot que es pot prendre en píndoles: coneixement mutuo apropament valor valentia per afrontar la vergonya tocar el cord comprensió apelar a la unitat de tot ser.
Això m'interessa perquè vaig asistir en una trobada pública entre un palestí i un israelià que estan junts en una organització associació for piace Lluita per la pau o semblant, no ho se segur,
While I appreciate the perspective, I got lost in the territory when you spoke of not having free will. Granted your map is not the territory so I’m navigating, choosing to participate, to remain curious, open and in love with the hope of truly understanding your perspective. If I were to say that I had no choice, I feel as if I would be lying to myself.
So here I am being honest with myself taking 100% responsibility for the choices I have made, guilt shame, ugliness, pride, arrogance, even compassion but none of it lives here. And yet, like the weather sometimes feelings pass through. I’m not the owner of these feelings or emotions but self reflection and practice has taught me that I am responsible, able to respond, not a victim, puppet or God.
But, Awareness hmmm this is something new for me.
Hopefully this feedback is helpful. My intention is to gain clarity on how believing the statement you made about not having free will, is truly Loving, Love or compassionate?
Hi Rick–it's helpful to remember that free will and the absence of free will are both conceptual maps of reality, and they can each be helpful in different ways, at different times. I've written numerous articles on this subject both here on Substack and on my website, and I've gone into it in all of my books as well. If this interests you, I would suggest giving careful open attention to decisions and choices as they unfold. See if you can find the author of your thoughts or the decider, or if you can make the decisive moment in a conflicted decision happen any sooner than it does. I suspect if you look honestly and carefully, you'll find that you can't. That it all happens by itself.
You'll find that there is no "self" who can control what you want in any given moment. That doesn't mean that learning and insight won't happen, choicelessly. They will! And there may well be the sense of "you" having chosen to do certain things, such as go into therapy, or read a particular book, or take a time out instead of expressing anger. Thought, posing as you, the phantom self, will claim that "I did it." You have to watch very closely to catch this.
You may find that in spite of years of therapy and meditation and good intentions, sometimes when anger arises, the ability to take a time out isn't there, even if the thought pops up that you "should" do that, and instead, you vent your anger (or you eat the cake, or smoke the cigarette, or put off cleaning the garage, or whatever the case may be). You break your New Years resolution or your vow. The responsibility (the ability to respond) is there when it is, and not when it isn't. If you're trying to stop an addiction, you'll probably find that sometimes the desire to indulge overwhelms the desire to quit, and that there is no one in control of which desire is stronger in any given moment. Thought comes in after the fact and claims that "I failed," or "I succeeded." And then often adds a story: "I'm a hopeless failure," or "I chose to stop drinking and anyone else can choose that too!" And that leads to judgment, guilt, blame, false pride, etc. Suffering.
Of course, "taking responsibility" is appropriate in many life situations. And in a way, we have no choice except to believe in the illusion of choice, until perhaps something brings us to the point of examining it more closely. And then, having seen through it, life continues to function, and we apparently go on making choices, but the sense that "I" am doing this has dropped away. That doesn't mean feeling like I'm not doing it. It's more like the phantom in the center just isn't believable anymore. Life is doing it. It's happening.
Glorious Joan, thank you 🙏
Thank you joan!!!
all i can say is WOW! a thousand thanks...
Once again well said! Very coherent and welcoming! Nice invitation to explore! Love it!
Thank you Joan for such clarity!
Yes repetition works for me!
I know it , I hear it , I experience it but I still need help coming back to it, 'To Reality as it is ! ' . And repetition helps clear away any imaginary obstacles. Thank you 🙏
Causes and conditions!
Row, row, row your boat gently down the stream
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily
Life is but a dream
As I was reading, I thought, “I must simply keep reading this continually, all day every day, and then I’d not lose this awareness.” Hahaha! The individualistic part of consciousness keeps wanting to control everything, even the not-controlling-everything. I deeply appreciate all your writing and the way you play with recurring patterns of language. Also, very recently a dear friend of mine died just a few weeks after diagnosis, and he told me how grateful he was for the non-dual perspective he’d been taught. You were one of the teachers who enabled him to experience much relief and freedom at the end of his life. Thank you so much.
Exactly, each time your words, even when repeated, strike a different chord, and another facet reveals itself. Thank you, Joan.
Non duality captured in a nutshell…Lately I’ve been wondering if it’s all just another comforting narrative … just a story that gives us the illusion of certainty.
Once we put it into words, it's a story. But if it's just a story or an idea or a belief, it will always remain doubtful, with thoughts popping up such as, "Maybe this is just a story and I'm fooling myself," and at the center of those thoughts, driving them, there is the root thought, the "me" thought, and the concern with not fooling myself and not being a fool and ultimately surviving as me. That's why I always suggest direct exploration of present experiencing, testing it out, looking and listening, seeing directly. Then it sinks in at a whole different level. And yes, it is, in my experience, the most comforting discovery (and story). 🙏
After 10 years of non duality..including direct exploration via intensives designed to “end” the spiritual path with various teachers, each with their own twist on the core narrative you’ve captured clearly, it’s all starting to feel like a slightly more enlightened herd..I just sense there’s further to go.
That's the most challenging apparent "problem" right there, the belief that there is further to go, which of course involves "me" and future time and the belief that "this isn't quite it."
Relatively speaking, of course, this notion seems to make sense, since we can learn, practice, refine and develop all kinds of skills, and (in the story, told by memory, abstraction, reification and over-simplification) "I" can seemingly improve in all kinds of ways over apparent time (e.g., once "I" was a drunk and now I'm sober). And in many ways, there is no end to exploration, discovery and new revelations.
But it all happens NOW. We never actually leave here-now, this one bottomless moment. This really is IT. And right now, in this instant, before thought kicks in, there is no me, no future, no past, not even any now. Thought, memory and imagination create the central character, the narrative, and the apparently progressive journey from drunkenness to sobriety, or from grade school to graduate school, or from infancy to old age, or from delusion to enlightenment.
"10 years of non duality" is a story. A story about "Stephen" who has made some progress maybe, but still has "further to go." It's a story. And the story is nothing other than a momentary wave of experiencing. It's not really a problem at all.
I’ve enjoyed my time in non duality…it’s been a warm cul-de-sac and as you say..the ultimate comforting narrative…but it’s not the clarity I seek.
And yet, here you are....reading, commenting, obviously still engaged. What's being pointed to isn't the narrative or the story. It's the aliveness right here and now. And it's also about seeing through the thoughts-stories-beliefs that seem to hide this from us. That seeing can only happen NOW, and it always happens instantaneously, but it rarely happens once-and-for-all.
It often takes many decades of catching the mechanism of suffering again and again as it happens. Each seeing is fresh and new. It's always right now. There is only right now. You can't get any closer to this than you always already are. But paradoxically, it can seemingly take decades, far more than a mere 10 years, to see and see through and wear out the "yes, but's" of the thinking mind, and for this to sink in deeply. And in some cases, that never happens. But even then, there was never a separate "someone" who was lost and never found.
Wayne Liquorman once said that seeking is like having sex with a 900 pound gorilla...you're not done until the gorilla is done. So, onward in your search for the clarity that seems to be missing, perhaps looking everywhere but right here. And by right here, I don't mean on my Substack. I mean in this instant of your own direct present experiencing. All the best....
❤️
Echo previous comments-thank you. Would it be within non dualality to sau we have a “self” -a preference, a thought, a belief, a constellation, that is different moment to moment, always in process, responsive and responding sometimes with hints of continuity, sonetimes with radical breaks and to tune into and endure and delight in the isness of each momentary variation gives breath around the edges? Long time ago I studied Process Theology, whwn it was a pretty radical idea in my culture, and was drawn to the droplet of experiencing where we have the tiniest wooing.
Some people have said selfing rather than self (verb rather than noun), and if we're going to talk about a self, that seems like a more accurate way from my perspective. And that seems to be what I hear you suggesting, that there is an ever-changing but somewhat consistent patterning made up of many elements, which are themselves better described as verbs than nouns. The apparent continuity depends on memory of course, which is part of the whole. However, I'm not sure I understand the final line in your comment, that you were "drawn to the droplet of experiencing where we have the tiniest wooing." ???
Yes! Truth in the Hebrew is more like truthing, a process not a destination. When I read that piece of translation, I thought of Jesus as pointing towards the waying, the truthing and the living. Not static. Process thought describes the holy as that which woos us, in each tiny droplet of experiecing, in the flow of time, with that hint which opens possibilty, hope, joy, abundant life.
Ahh, beautiful!
Wow.
Hi Joan I've printed out this post and already read it several times... Have you ever considered creating a little pocket with posts of wisdom like this.
( A nice little hardback would be wonderful although not essential) . I tend to print out quite a few of you posts and love to refer to them as little reminders. I've read all your books over the years and can so relate to your journey with all its down to earth honesty.
I would definitely buy a few copied of you decided to do such a pocket book of such honest wisdom.
Kev from the UK 🙏Xx
A number of folks have suggested turning some of my Substack articles into a book, and I do have a file of material, some new, and some from Substack, website and old Facebook writings (back when I was on FB), and it could end up being another book. My biggest problem is that I have too much material, since brevity is not my strong point, and it needs editing, pruning, arranging and lots and lots of cutting, all of which is the part I procrastinate on since it is the most difficult for me...so, we'll see if it ever coalesces into another book, but it might. I appreciate the nudge and encouragement to do it.
deixa't de més llibres ja hi han masses llibres. Tingues temps lliure, cada dia més. Sol en tu mateix d'aquí surt el que pot interessar
Good advice, and in a way, it's where all the words are pointing, but books can also be very helpful and important in clarifying all of this. If I felt otherwise, I wouldn't be writing (or reading). In my experience, it's not either/or.
Hola ¡ sí, es veritat , també es pot revertir estar en tu mateix primer i després explicar-ho
Gracies per contestar ¡
No puc marcar el m'agrada per alguna qüestió tècnica posa : java scrip
I need to hear this over and over,thank you and yes it’s always fresh,this precious moment.❤️
Joan. Thank you and long may you continue to play your music.
Thank you for such profound help!
Hola ¡ jo, qua em dic a mi mateix jo és una ressonància buida de contingut però plena de novetat com una incògnita al mateix temps que propera molt a prop meu, un jo genuí i, pensant-ho una mica es així ja que cada jo es únic irrepetible genuí la diversitat d'una sola Cosa. El jo primer el que només sap que es jo, d'un mateix, es tímid, reservat el proper el de hom mateix, en contrast amb el jo que sap que té que saber hi està casi obligat, el jo social es el que i qui defèn aquesta intimitat que es Ell .
Tot es relació de tot amb tot al instan cada cosa i persona del interior cos al exterior món i al univers d'anada i també a de tornada
Tenir que guanyar-se la vida això ens ho fan creure des del principi i ens ho creiem i, passa el que passa generalment per exemple ara la competició exacerbada maliciosa no natural, la por l'egoisme els odis creats per la gent que vol poder més i més i les guerres ..
Podries escriure sobre l'odi com s'estén què ho fa...
Gràcies ¡una abraçada
As I see it, hate comes from feeling separate and small and threatened. It is one of the many side effects of believing we are separate and also that we all have personal free will, so if someone does something I don't like, I think they could have done otherwise.
Hola ¡ sí es cert, l'amor es unió l'odi el contrari, així doncs tenim un antídot que es pot prendre en píndoles: coneixement mutuo apropament valor valentia per afrontar la vergonya tocar el cord comprensió apelar a la unitat de tot ser.
Això m'interessa perquè vaig asistir en una trobada pública entre un palestí i un israelià que estan junts en una organització associació for piace Lluita per la pau o semblant, no ho se segur,
Thank you for sharing 🙏.
While I appreciate the perspective, I got lost in the territory when you spoke of not having free will. Granted your map is not the territory so I’m navigating, choosing to participate, to remain curious, open and in love with the hope of truly understanding your perspective. If I were to say that I had no choice, I feel as if I would be lying to myself.
So here I am being honest with myself taking 100% responsibility for the choices I have made, guilt shame, ugliness, pride, arrogance, even compassion but none of it lives here. And yet, like the weather sometimes feelings pass through. I’m not the owner of these feelings or emotions but self reflection and practice has taught me that I am responsible, able to respond, not a victim, puppet or God.
But, Awareness hmmm this is something new for me.
Hopefully this feedback is helpful. My intention is to gain clarity on how believing the statement you made about not having free will, is truly Loving, Love or compassionate?
Thank you kindly 🙏🎁
With Aloha
Capt Rick
Hi Rick–it's helpful to remember that free will and the absence of free will are both conceptual maps of reality, and they can each be helpful in different ways, at different times. I've written numerous articles on this subject both here on Substack and on my website, and I've gone into it in all of my books as well. If this interests you, I would suggest giving careful open attention to decisions and choices as they unfold. See if you can find the author of your thoughts or the decider, or if you can make the decisive moment in a conflicted decision happen any sooner than it does. I suspect if you look honestly and carefully, you'll find that you can't. That it all happens by itself.
You'll find that there is no "self" who can control what you want in any given moment. That doesn't mean that learning and insight won't happen, choicelessly. They will! And there may well be the sense of "you" having chosen to do certain things, such as go into therapy, or read a particular book, or take a time out instead of expressing anger. Thought, posing as you, the phantom self, will claim that "I did it." You have to watch very closely to catch this.
You may find that in spite of years of therapy and meditation and good intentions, sometimes when anger arises, the ability to take a time out isn't there, even if the thought pops up that you "should" do that, and instead, you vent your anger (or you eat the cake, or smoke the cigarette, or put off cleaning the garage, or whatever the case may be). You break your New Years resolution or your vow. The responsibility (the ability to respond) is there when it is, and not when it isn't. If you're trying to stop an addiction, you'll probably find that sometimes the desire to indulge overwhelms the desire to quit, and that there is no one in control of which desire is stronger in any given moment. Thought comes in after the fact and claims that "I failed," or "I succeeded." And then often adds a story: "I'm a hopeless failure," or "I chose to stop drinking and anyone else can choose that too!" And that leads to judgment, guilt, blame, false pride, etc. Suffering.
Of course, "taking responsibility" is appropriate in many life situations. And in a way, we have no choice except to believe in the illusion of choice, until perhaps something brings us to the point of examining it more closely. And then, having seen through it, life continues to function, and we apparently go on making choices, but the sense that "I" am doing this has dropped away. That doesn't mean feeling like I'm not doing it. It's more like the phantom in the center just isn't believable anymore. Life is doing it. It's happening.
PS - 3 articles on my website:
https://www.joantollifson.com/writing9.html
https://www.joantollifson.com/writing26.html
https://www.joantollifson.com/writing56.html
There’s a lot here to chew on thank You 🙏 🎁❤️
Thank you kindly Joan, I greatly appreciate your response and careful consideration. Certainly worth contemplating 🙏🎁.
Ohhh and does this resonate, “The meaning of communication is the response you get.” ?
Dr. Matt James
Aloha
Rick