Reading this triggered thinking about the idea of "goalless goals"/"gateless gates"/"pathless paths" etc...
Yes, the perspective of "clear seeing", of contentment with things as they seem to us to be in the moment, with the caveat that we can never experience anything 100% objectively, certainly enables a more balanced - and therefore pleasant - overall existence.
And that is sufficient to justify my reinforcing of it in myself by what I read and when talking to others...
I no longer care about overlaying a philosophical rationalisation, or giving it a grounding in any particular tradition...and neither, I think, do you.
Thank you Joan! Your words act as beautiful reminders and always appear at just the right time. My acceptance of who I am, "warts and all" has had a real positive effect along with my deep understanding of my part of the whole. My understanding of that balance has been so freeing although really had to share with words.
I appreciate how you acknowledge that pain can't always be cured and resist throwing platitudes at it. But I notice even when we try to avoid spiritual bypassing, there's still this subtle pull toward finding consolation - the 'full embrace' that somehow transforms suffering. What if pain has to remain unlovable to be pain? The moment we can fully embrace it or love it, it stops being pain and becomes something else entirely. What if some experiences just need to stay unwanted, without any framework around them at all? Not as a stepping stone to acceptance, just as the thing that hurts and has to keep hurting to remain what it is.
You're right, it is. My emphasis is simply that this acceptance needs to fully honor pain's 'unlovable' core – its right to just be what it is, without us needing it to transform or offer consolation. I think I’m trying to resist my own tendency to try and resolve or complete.
Acceptance is another word for unconditional love. It doesn't see pain as unlovable. If it does, that's not the acceptance to which I am pointing. Of course, as I hope my article makes clear, this isn't about denying that pain can be very painful, that it hurts. And it's natural to prefer pleasure over pain. But as soon as we think of pain as unlovable and horrible, this is not what I mean by acceptance.
Or is 'acceptance' too neat a word for acknowledging pain that insists on remaining 'unlovable' and unwelcome? Perhaps it's more about bearing witness to that unresolvable tension, rather than 'accepting' it into a state of peace. Or maybe I’m stating the obvious?
Yes Jeff i know what you mean -- there's a huge difference perhaps between a resigned, shrugging the shoulders acceptance and a state of awareness acceptance....
I'd urge you to stop trying to sort this out mentally and instead explore these questions directly the next time you find yourself in physical or emotional pain. Really give it open attention. Notice what thought is telling you. Notice if you are tensing up and resisting it. See if it's possible to open to it instead, to relax into the pure sensory experiencing of it. What is that like? Experiment. Explore. Be curious. This will be infinitely more valuable to you than thinking about this and trying to parse it out in substack comments. At least, that's been my experience.
I can’t help but feel I disagree with you, though it doesn’t necessarily mean I think you are wrong either. If I haven’t felt what you describe and say exists, then I have no position to really comment, though I remain open to what you say. I often feel frustrated, as there is no counter to the position you hold—not that I simply want to counter; it’s just a feeling of annoyance that irks me, especially when the pain isn’t just physical but also overwhelming depression. I know there’s much more than what my little mind can conceive, so, as I say, I remain open and appreciate your words.
One things I've discovered that initially surprised me very much as I saw it in myself was how attached we can be to our pain and suffering. And how angry and oppositional we can get if anyone suggests there might be a way through it. So I encourage you to keep exploring, openly. And I did elude in my article to the fact that some suffering may be incurable. And no suffering can end until the necessary causes and conditions appear, which is a matter of good fortune, luck, or (in spiritual terms) grace. A book I read years ago impressed me quite deeply. This is my review of it from the recommended books page on my website (https://www.joantollifson.com/recommend.html):
FALLING INTO THE FIRE: A Psychiatrist’s Encounters with the Mind in Crisis by Christine Montross. This is not a book on nonduality and it’s not an overtly spiritual book, but it’s a book I highly recommend. The author is an inpatient psychiatrist who writes about some very profound and often bizarre forms of human suffering, like the woman who compulsively and repeatedly swallows razor blades, bed springs, broken light bulbs, nails and other sharp objects and then undergoes repeated surgeries as a result, or the people who amputate their own limbs, or the mothers who murder their own children. Montross meets each of her patients with compassion and curiosity, questioning herself as she goes. I loved her reflections on life and human vulnerability, on difficult moral questions, on the suffering that sometimes has no cure. You’ll come away with compassion for all of these people, and you’ll be truly amazed at some of the things that go on in human life. For anyone who believes there is a single cause or a single cure for our human problems, this book might wake you up to the profound complexity and extremes of affliction and to the fact that we are not really in control or running this show. In fact, I consider it a deeply spiritual book. As Simone Weil says in one of the epigraph quotes at the beginning, to be aware of this suffering and vulnerability “is to experience non-being. It is the state of extreme and total humiliation which is also the condition for passing over into truth.”
The acceptance to which I'm pointing isn't result-oriented. It isn't seeking a cure. If it is, that's not complete acceptance. And it's not fatalistic resignation either. It is neither hopeful nor despairing. It is simply being fully present, not separate from the pain. You could call it surrender. But we can't make this kind of acceptance happen through will or effort because that's actually the opposite move. It's more a relaxation, a letting go. If you've experienced it, you'll know what I mean, and if not, no words will ever quite capture it. But they may offer a clue. When this acceptance happens, the pain does indeed change and become totally bearable, even interesting, and may even disappear. But if it's important for some reason to hold on to the pain and the resistance and the suffering, then that will undoubtedly happen instead, so I don't think you have to worry about missing out on anything.
A beautiful sharing Joan. And you are right that often people will create an identity around their brokenness in an effort to relieve the eternal tension of having to become in spite of who they are.
I especially loved the Leonard Cohen quote about living in a universe where the wound never heals. To remain wounded but open-hearted - this I believe is our greatest challenge as human beings. It is so easy to resort to our mechanisms of self-protection - of dismissing others, of appearing impervious or superior in the face of criticism.
The wound smarts, will always smart - and that’s ok. It only makes our capacity to love and bear witness all the more powerful when we are willing to do it even in the midst of pain.
What we really are, truly, is so in love with Itself that all the imperfections that remain with us during our lifetime, are fully embraced, fully accepted no matter what they look like. They don’t need to be fixed or changed.
Noticing the unconditional acceptance weakens all ideas of imperfection. It seems to be a gradual realization of the perfection in everything.
Hi, Joan. Thank you for your writings. I found you on the Waking Up app. My astounding, amazing 22 year old daughter died of cancer last November. My heart is so broken. It physically hurts. I wish I to speak with you about her and about transforming the pain. I’m a Dzogchen practitioner. So, your words very much resonate with me. Would it be possible to speak with you? Thank you.
I'm so sorry to hear about your daughter. Losing a child at that age sounds truly heartbreaking. I do offer individual meetings on Zoom: https://www.joantollifson.com/sessions.html
Hi Joan...how's it going?
Reading this triggered thinking about the idea of "goalless goals"/"gateless gates"/"pathless paths" etc...
Yes, the perspective of "clear seeing", of contentment with things as they seem to us to be in the moment, with the caveat that we can never experience anything 100% objectively, certainly enables a more balanced - and therefore pleasant - overall existence.
And that is sufficient to justify my reinforcing of it in myself by what I read and when talking to others...
I no longer care about overlaying a philosophical rationalisation, or giving it a grounding in any particular tradition...and neither, I think, do you.
Have a great day mate!
Thank you Joan! Your words act as beautiful reminders and always appear at just the right time. My acceptance of who I am, "warts and all" has had a real positive effect along with my deep understanding of my part of the whole. My understanding of that balance has been so freeing although really had to share with words.
Thank you again for all that you do. 🙏🙏
Kev
I appreciate how you acknowledge that pain can't always be cured and resist throwing platitudes at it. But I notice even when we try to avoid spiritual bypassing, there's still this subtle pull toward finding consolation - the 'full embrace' that somehow transforms suffering. What if pain has to remain unlovable to be pain? The moment we can fully embrace it or love it, it stops being pain and becomes something else entirely. What if some experiences just need to stay unwanted, without any framework around them at all? Not as a stepping stone to acceptance, just as the thing that hurts and has to keep hurting to remain what it is.
I don’t mean to suggest a hierarchy of pain. I mean more the nature of pain itself.
Isnt that simply acceptance?
You're right, it is. My emphasis is simply that this acceptance needs to fully honor pain's 'unlovable' core – its right to just be what it is, without us needing it to transform or offer consolation. I think I’m trying to resist my own tendency to try and resolve or complete.
Acceptance is another word for unconditional love. It doesn't see pain as unlovable. If it does, that's not the acceptance to which I am pointing. Of course, as I hope my article makes clear, this isn't about denying that pain can be very painful, that it hurts. And it's natural to prefer pleasure over pain. But as soon as we think of pain as unlovable and horrible, this is not what I mean by acceptance.
Or is 'acceptance' too neat a word for acknowledging pain that insists on remaining 'unlovable' and unwelcome? Perhaps it's more about bearing witness to that unresolvable tension, rather than 'accepting' it into a state of peace. Or maybe I’m stating the obvious?
Yes Jeff i know what you mean -- there's a huge difference perhaps between a resigned, shrugging the shoulders acceptance and a state of awareness acceptance....
I'd urge you to stop trying to sort this out mentally and instead explore these questions directly the next time you find yourself in physical or emotional pain. Really give it open attention. Notice what thought is telling you. Notice if you are tensing up and resisting it. See if it's possible to open to it instead, to relax into the pure sensory experiencing of it. What is that like? Experiment. Explore. Be curious. This will be infinitely more valuable to you than thinking about this and trying to parse it out in substack comments. At least, that's been my experience.
I can’t help but feel I disagree with you, though it doesn’t necessarily mean I think you are wrong either. If I haven’t felt what you describe and say exists, then I have no position to really comment, though I remain open to what you say. I often feel frustrated, as there is no counter to the position you hold—not that I simply want to counter; it’s just a feeling of annoyance that irks me, especially when the pain isn’t just physical but also overwhelming depression. I know there’s much more than what my little mind can conceive, so, as I say, I remain open and appreciate your words.
One things I've discovered that initially surprised me very much as I saw it in myself was how attached we can be to our pain and suffering. And how angry and oppositional we can get if anyone suggests there might be a way through it. So I encourage you to keep exploring, openly. And I did elude in my article to the fact that some suffering may be incurable. And no suffering can end until the necessary causes and conditions appear, which is a matter of good fortune, luck, or (in spiritual terms) grace. A book I read years ago impressed me quite deeply. This is my review of it from the recommended books page on my website (https://www.joantollifson.com/recommend.html):
FALLING INTO THE FIRE: A Psychiatrist’s Encounters with the Mind in Crisis by Christine Montross. This is not a book on nonduality and it’s not an overtly spiritual book, but it’s a book I highly recommend. The author is an inpatient psychiatrist who writes about some very profound and often bizarre forms of human suffering, like the woman who compulsively and repeatedly swallows razor blades, bed springs, broken light bulbs, nails and other sharp objects and then undergoes repeated surgeries as a result, or the people who amputate their own limbs, or the mothers who murder their own children. Montross meets each of her patients with compassion and curiosity, questioning herself as she goes. I loved her reflections on life and human vulnerability, on difficult moral questions, on the suffering that sometimes has no cure. You’ll come away with compassion for all of these people, and you’ll be truly amazed at some of the things that go on in human life. For anyone who believes there is a single cause or a single cure for our human problems, this book might wake you up to the profound complexity and extremes of affliction and to the fact that we are not really in control or running this show. In fact, I consider it a deeply spiritual book. As Simone Weil says in one of the epigraph quotes at the beginning, to be aware of this suffering and vulnerability “is to experience non-being. It is the state of extreme and total humiliation which is also the condition for passing over into truth.”
Thanks Joan I will read this! Interesting last quote too, and especially as I’ve been thinking about humiliation and ground recently.
The acceptance to which I'm pointing isn't result-oriented. It isn't seeking a cure. If it is, that's not complete acceptance. And it's not fatalistic resignation either. It is neither hopeful nor despairing. It is simply being fully present, not separate from the pain. You could call it surrender. But we can't make this kind of acceptance happen through will or effort because that's actually the opposite move. It's more a relaxation, a letting go. If you've experienced it, you'll know what I mean, and if not, no words will ever quite capture it. But they may offer a clue. When this acceptance happens, the pain does indeed change and become totally bearable, even interesting, and may even disappear. But if it's important for some reason to hold on to the pain and the resistance and the suffering, then that will undoubtedly happen instead, so I don't think you have to worry about missing out on anything.
Cool, cheers Joan.
That was quite beautiful! Thank you so much! Namaste 🙏
Sharing of yourself..so caring! Also..the wisdom of no escape comes to mind❣️🙏
That was especially wonderful 🥹
A beautiful sharing Joan. And you are right that often people will create an identity around their brokenness in an effort to relieve the eternal tension of having to become in spite of who they are.
I especially loved the Leonard Cohen quote about living in a universe where the wound never heals. To remain wounded but open-hearted - this I believe is our greatest challenge as human beings. It is so easy to resort to our mechanisms of self-protection - of dismissing others, of appearing impervious or superior in the face of criticism.
The wound smarts, will always smart - and that’s ok. It only makes our capacity to love and bear witness all the more powerful when we are willing to do it even in the midst of pain.
“everyone is truly blameless”
yes! a revelation that transforms my perception of everything 💜🙏🏻
Once I "understand it," I can rest assured that is not it. 🤡 Thanks, Joan. Love, Tom ❤️
Hi all,
What we really are, truly, is so in love with Itself that all the imperfections that remain with us during our lifetime, are fully embraced, fully accepted no matter what they look like. They don’t need to be fixed or changed.
Noticing the unconditional acceptance weakens all ideas of imperfection. It seems to be a gradual realization of the perfection in everything.
Lots of Love, always
Carol ♥️
Hi, Joan. Thank you for your writings. I found you on the Waking Up app. My astounding, amazing 22 year old daughter died of cancer last November. My heart is so broken. It physically hurts. I wish I to speak with you about her and about transforming the pain. I’m a Dzogchen practitioner. So, your words very much resonate with me. Would it be possible to speak with you? Thank you.
I'm so sorry to hear about your daughter. Losing a child at that age sounds truly heartbreaking. I do offer individual meetings on Zoom: https://www.joantollifson.com/sessions.html
Dear Joan,
Thank you for this and all that you share.
I love this: "We all matter more than we realize."
Thank you!
Love
Myq
Dear Joan, you are beautiful! thanks you! Makes me weep, but not in a bad way.