Thank you Joan. I love how you lay out the possibilities, the possible interpretations and the places to research more. Thank you for your good good work. I lean towards the experiential rather than the intellectual, but am happy to explore more. Thank you again.
I always enjoy your readings and it’s so true .. it’s all about experiencing towards this true Self which point to and sees the whole appearing as non duality experiencing
Advaita Vedanta has always been thought as neti-neti. Simply because any form of presence/existence automatically implies two (and more). Who is there to claim presence? Contemporary "non-duality" has become an awareness teaching. It doesn't matter if the "I" identifies with a small self or with awareness (Self) - it's the same I. As soon as there is the first (I or awareness or consciousness or Self) it isn't non-duality. It simply can't be defined in any positive way. Wei Wu Wei said it best: "I am not at all, in any conceivable way, manner, state, form or dimension. For the same reason there is no such thing as Reality, Truth, Absolute" The moment you try to define non-duality, you fail. So this is indeed a "Mission Impossible" 😁
I see you're in the pissing contest, working hard at it, but luckily, you don't exist and there is no actual contest. You're right that anything we try to say is "Mission Impossible," but still, life compels some of us fools, like the imaginary you and me, to speak. 😎
Haha - I didn’t know that this is a contest - maybe because there isn’t one 😅
Indeed, why we fools speak about a non-existent thing like non-duality is a mystery. Maybe because it’s as good as any other topic. It’s a dance of words. Nothing to win in this dharma dialogue. Literally. 🙏
As I said in the article: "Sometimes there are even (dualistic?) pissing contests over which version of nonduality is the most nondual. And that’s really nothing new—such contentious debates have existed for centuries between different schools and traditions." That seemed to be what you were engaged in.
Beautiful, well worth the effortless effort to read to the end, some wonderful nuggets.
I was reading a book by Brian M Woody today, he’s a super brainy mathematical genius who has written a very nice non duality book
I got to the part where he talks about fractals, I looked up and around me (I was on the tube heading into central London) and I saw everyone around me as a beautiful infinite fractal pattern of love. It was a beautiful moment, no separation to be found.
Although tomorrow I may turn into the neurotic self and see separation everywhere 🤣
One question: do you think saying “nonduality is not a philosophy” can obscure the fact that many metaphysical claims/interpretations are often put forth by nonduality communicators?
Naked experiencing is not a philosophy but as soon as it gets put into words it seems to become an interpretation that could be called philosophical in nature
Hi Jordon, I suppose if you took that one line out of context, eliminating everything in the article that came before and after it, and then held it up as some kind of absolute statement, it might possibly be misunderstood to mean that nothing any non-dualist says is ever a philosophy or a belief. But obviously, that would be absurd. Even if we are approaching this by encouraging direct, experiential exploration, once we put it into words, it becomes a kind of philosophy. But if I worried about every word I utter to that degree, I'd never say anything. Whatever we say can always be misunderstood. My point was that LIFE is not a philosophy. LIFE is nondual.
The final story in JD Salinger’s Nine Stories, titled Teddy, is about a child who is considered a freak because he understands things such as the simple reality that the word “tree” is an artificial construct. Being aware of awareness that is distinct from language was unheard of at that time. That awareness is nondual seems natural and even unremarkable to me, which is, perhaps a recognition that who I think I am emerges from a deeper source that might be referred to as God.
I don't remember those stories, although I read them long ago. I do remember that on my first acid trip, which was probably in 1966 or 1967, I went completely silent because every time I started to say something, I realized all the words were meaningless. My friends kept asking me if I was okay, and I wanted to reassure them, but even to say "yes" seemed utterly absurd, so I couldn't speak. At the time, I didn't realize what a profound realization it actually was.
But when you say that "Being aware of awareness that is distinct from language was unheard of at that time," I don't think that's true. Many have been aware of this throughout the ages. It's there in Eastern spirituality centuries ago. And in the West as well.
You’re right. I spoke hastily without recalling that Shakespeare is shot through with non dual awareness, or the Catholic tradition that inspired Thomas Merton.
Last time Peter Brown (whom I am reading with great delight) and this time David Loy. May I recommend the introduction to the paperback edition of "Nonduality: In Buddhism and Beyond" (you can download it as a free excerpt on Kindle), in which he reviews the previous edition in a most helpful way. Thank you as always, Joan.
Really nice article! It is amazing to me how you take all the information on a topic and organize it so well and get to the main thrusts of the matter. You do a wonderful job of distilling complexity into its essence and integrating nonduality (using words) into the messiness of life. One of your super powers in my opinion. No easy matter.
The link to the books you recommend is sincerely appreciated. I read your recommendations for Darryl Bailey and Peter Brown and you do a really super job of providing excellent insights into their work that I thought was right on target for what I have gleaned from reading their works and watching their videos. That is a really valuable rendering which will help people steer their reading interests in the right direction.
Thank you Joan and all of those who participated with their comments. I found this post and the comments it inspired absolutely riveting. Thank you. Much love to all.
Thank you Joan. I love how you lay out the possibilities, the possible interpretations and the places to research more. Thank you for your good good work. I lean towards the experiential rather than the intellectual, but am happy to explore more. Thank you again.
I always enjoy your readings and it’s so true .. it’s all about experiencing towards this true Self which point to and sees the whole appearing as non duality experiencing
💕
Advaita Vedanta has always been thought as neti-neti. Simply because any form of presence/existence automatically implies two (and more). Who is there to claim presence? Contemporary "non-duality" has become an awareness teaching. It doesn't matter if the "I" identifies with a small self or with awareness (Self) - it's the same I. As soon as there is the first (I or awareness or consciousness or Self) it isn't non-duality. It simply can't be defined in any positive way. Wei Wu Wei said it best: "I am not at all, in any conceivable way, manner, state, form or dimension. For the same reason there is no such thing as Reality, Truth, Absolute" The moment you try to define non-duality, you fail. So this is indeed a "Mission Impossible" 😁
I see you're in the pissing contest, working hard at it, but luckily, you don't exist and there is no actual contest. You're right that anything we try to say is "Mission Impossible," but still, life compels some of us fools, like the imaginary you and me, to speak. 😎
Haha - I didn’t know that this is a contest - maybe because there isn’t one 😅
Indeed, why we fools speak about a non-existent thing like non-duality is a mystery. Maybe because it’s as good as any other topic. It’s a dance of words. Nothing to win in this dharma dialogue. Literally. 🙏
As I said in the article: "Sometimes there are even (dualistic?) pissing contests over which version of nonduality is the most nondual. And that’s really nothing new—such contentious debates have existed for centuries between different schools and traditions." That seemed to be what you were engaged in.
Maybe "the solution" here is that if it is truly non-duality it is ineffable. (-:)
Beautiful, well worth the effortless effort to read to the end, some wonderful nuggets.
I was reading a book by Brian M Woody today, he’s a super brainy mathematical genius who has written a very nice non duality book
I got to the part where he talks about fractals, I looked up and around me (I was on the tube heading into central London) and I saw everyone around me as a beautiful infinite fractal pattern of love. It was a beautiful moment, no separation to be found.
Although tomorrow I may turn into the neurotic self and see separation everywhere 🤣
I really enjoy seeing something from you in the inbox, and it's always something profound and true. Thank you!
Dear Joan, it is always a pleasure to read your articles. Thank you. 💖
Thank you as always Joan 💙🙏🏼
One question: do you think saying “nonduality is not a philosophy” can obscure the fact that many metaphysical claims/interpretations are often put forth by nonduality communicators?
Naked experiencing is not a philosophy but as soon as it gets put into words it seems to become an interpretation that could be called philosophical in nature
Hi Jordon, I suppose if you took that one line out of context, eliminating everything in the article that came before and after it, and then held it up as some kind of absolute statement, it might possibly be misunderstood to mean that nothing any non-dualist says is ever a philosophy or a belief. But obviously, that would be absurd. Even if we are approaching this by encouraging direct, experiential exploration, once we put it into words, it becomes a kind of philosophy. But if I worried about every word I utter to that degree, I'd never say anything. Whatever we say can always be misunderstood. My point was that LIFE is not a philosophy. LIFE is nondual.
The final story in JD Salinger’s Nine Stories, titled Teddy, is about a child who is considered a freak because he understands things such as the simple reality that the word “tree” is an artificial construct. Being aware of awareness that is distinct from language was unheard of at that time. That awareness is nondual seems natural and even unremarkable to me, which is, perhaps a recognition that who I think I am emerges from a deeper source that might be referred to as God.
I don't remember those stories, although I read them long ago. I do remember that on my first acid trip, which was probably in 1966 or 1967, I went completely silent because every time I started to say something, I realized all the words were meaningless. My friends kept asking me if I was okay, and I wanted to reassure them, but even to say "yes" seemed utterly absurd, so I couldn't speak. At the time, I didn't realize what a profound realization it actually was.
But when you say that "Being aware of awareness that is distinct from language was unheard of at that time," I don't think that's true. Many have been aware of this throughout the ages. It's there in Eastern spirituality centuries ago. And in the West as well.
You’re right. I spoke hastily without recalling that Shakespeare is shot through with non dual awareness, or the Catholic tradition that inspired Thomas Merton.
Last time Peter Brown (whom I am reading with great delight) and this time David Loy. May I recommend the introduction to the paperback edition of "Nonduality: In Buddhism and Beyond" (you can download it as a free excerpt on Kindle), in which he reviews the previous edition in a most helpful way. Thank you as always, Joan.
I was able to read it in the "look inside the book" preview on Amazon. Thanks for pointing it out. 🙏
Really nice article! It is amazing to me how you take all the information on a topic and organize it so well and get to the main thrusts of the matter. You do a wonderful job of distilling complexity into its essence and integrating nonduality (using words) into the messiness of life. One of your super powers in my opinion. No easy matter.
The link to the books you recommend is sincerely appreciated. I read your recommendations for Darryl Bailey and Peter Brown and you do a really super job of providing excellent insights into their work that I thought was right on target for what I have gleaned from reading their works and watching their videos. That is a really valuable rendering which will help people steer their reading interests in the right direction.
Well done and Thank you!
Thank you Joan and all of those who participated with their comments. I found this post and the comments it inspired absolutely riveting. Thank you. Much love to all.
This is an excellent primer on the subject. As a taoist, this helped me articulate my own thoughts on the subject better as well, well done.
Thanks Joan , I love the clarity of your posts, makes the explanation so easy to understand and share with others.